Curse

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 08:37 PM // 20:37

For all the people whining about players having an unfair advantage with mercenaries, or that adding more than 3 necro heroes making the game too easy, feel free to do the following with the free heroes you already have in the game:

3 x Discord heroes - 1 N/Rt healer, 1 MM, 1 Curses. I put Desecrate + Defile Enchantments on both the MM and Curses ones for super nukage. Make sure the curses has enfeebling blood, weaken armor, and mark of pain for your MM.

2 x Mesmers - 1 domination with panic / mistrust / empathy and whatever else you want (I put on a few interupts too, CoF, Power Return, Leech Sig), and 1 illusion with Ineptitude / Clumsiness / Wandering Eye / Sig of Clumsiness / Arcane Conundrum.

2 x Rits - 1 channeling / restoration with Painful Bond, SoS, Bloodsong, Splinter Weapon, Spirit Siphon, Mend Body and Soul, Spirit Light, and depending on what you are playing, the second Rit goes Communing with either Soul Twisting with Shelter, Union, Displacement, Pain, and Anguish (if you arent a healer or prot yourself), of if you're playing a healer / prot class, then take Signet of Ghostly might and more offensive spirits.

If you still think that the game isnt easy enough, and that it can get any more easier or broken than that by removing any of the mesmers or rits for necros by using mercenaries, you're pretty noob tbh.

I just downloaded paw-ned to put my build into templates, it doesnt have to be exactly the same as this, but I've tried to maximise damage in my setup since I play an E/Mo:

This works in just about every 8 man vanq area and most other places too. It ISNT a DOA / UW or Slavers build, and I'm not claiming that it is the best build, or ideal to run throughout 100% of the game.

I would like for someone to show me how a merc team can make the game any easier than a build that any 7 heroes can run. Give me the builds and I will load and test them for you.

FyrFytr998 · Mar 04, 2011, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

For all the people whining about players having an unfair advantage with mercenaries, or that adding more than 3 necro heroes making the game too easy, feel free to do the following with the free heroes you already have in the game:

3 x Discord heroes - 1 N/Rt healer, 1 MM, 1 Curses. I put Desecrate + Defile Enchantments on both the MM and Curses ones for super nukage. Make sure the curses has enfeebling blood, weaken armor, and mark of pain for your MM.

2 x Mesmers - 1 domination with panic / mistrust / empathy and whatever else you want (I put on a few interupts too, CoF, Power Return, Leech Sig), and 1 illusion with Ineptitude / Clumsiness / Wandering Eye / Sig of Clumsiness / Arcane Conundrum.

2 x Rits - 1 channeling / restoration with Painful Bond, SoS, Bloodsong, Splinter Weapon, Spirit Siphon, Mend Body and Soul, Spirit Light, and depending on what you are playing, the second Rit goes Communing with either Soul Twisting with Shelter, Union, Displacement, Pain, and Anguish (if you arent a healer or prot yourself), of if you're playing a healer / prot class, then take Signet of Ghostly might and more offensive spirits.

If you still think that the game isnt easy enough, and that it can get any more easier or broken than that by removing any of the mesmers or rits for necros by using mercenaries, you're pretty noob tbh.

QFT.

I rolled out 3 Nec, 2 Rits, 1 ER Ele, and 1 Mes and was steam rolling UW and FoW last night in NM on my Necro. So I'm sure it'll be just as successful in HM too. I'm not gonna waste one dime for a merc.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

QFT.

I rolled out 3 Nec, 2 Rits, 1 ER Ele, and 1 Mes and was steam rolling UW and FoW last night in NM on my Necro. So I'm sure it'll be just as successful in HM too. I'm not gonna waste one dime for a merc.

Yea, I play the ER elly myself. Its insanely broken enough. I bought the mercenary 8 pack. I dont need anything about it to get a better advantage.

What I have done however is add 2 necro mercenaries so I have 3x Discord, and 1x SS and 1x SV always available without having to re rune any of them. I added my Rit , so now I can have an SoS, Sig of Ghostly Might, and Soul Twisting heroes ready without having to change skills.

I then added my remaining PVE characters all of which have nice armor (5 PVEs in total, plus I added 2 PVPs so I've used up 7 slots).

The idea is that I can use all my PVE characters together with the leet armors I have bought, thats an elly, rit, monk, mesmer and paragon. I'm hardly going to get anymore powerful with that than how unbelievably broken playing an ER elly with 3 necros, 2 mesmers and 2 rits is.

In fact the game is so easy that I'm actually gimping myself and playing with noobish skill bars instead for the fun of it. That way I can actually potentially get party wiped and have to run away and rebirth everyone like it was in the good old days

Another Felldspar · Mar 04, 2011, 09:13 PM // 21:13

God, what idiocy.

The "whining" -- the complaint -- isn't that the game is too hard. It isn't about 8 necroes or rits or any other specific build. It's about offering something through the cash shop that players CAN'T GET from playing the game. It's about inequity based on a purchase. It's about lack of integrity from a game studio, it's about selling something that is not cosmetic even though that studio has promised their player base that the cash shop items will only have cosmetic value -- after saying that cash shop items would not effect game play.

This particular cash shop item affects game play. It isn't merely cosmetic. No matter how easy the game is or isn't there are profession combinations that aren't available to the player base unless they purchase from the shop.

Understand now?

tacotown · Mar 04, 2011, 09:17 PM // 21:17

the people crying may have a point after the melee update, but as of now, i totally agree having more than 3 of the same profession is overkill. the mercenary stuff is great for vanity though, no? lots of glowy hands? =)

Ghull Ka · Mar 04, 2011, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Felldspar

God, what idiocy.

The "whining" -- the complaint -- isn't that the game is too hard. It isn't about 8 necroes or rits or any other specific build. It's about offering something through the cash shop that players CAN'T GET from playing the game. It's about inequity based on a purchase. It's about lack of integrity from a game studio, it's about selling something that is not cosmetic even though that studio has promised their player base that the cash shop items will only have cosmetic value -- after saying that cash shop items would not effect game play.

This particular cash shop item affects game play. It isn't merely cosmetic. No matter how easy the game is or isn't there are profession combinations that aren't available to the player base unless they purchase from the shop.

Understand now?

My Igneous Summoning Stone is my new best friend, now that I know I can get to LDoA via quests.

Do you believe that the advantage it gives me is also demonstrative of a lack of integrity?

I paid cash for it.

pingu666 · Mar 04, 2011, 09:26 PM // 21:26

its only been a day, wouldnt surprise me if we get some hax team builds which mostly arent possible without mercs turns up.

its deffinatly a advantage for characters going through the game for the first time, so you can have master of whispers alike character, before you get to him

BrettM · Mar 04, 2011, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Felldspar

This particular cash shop item affects game play. It isn't merely cosmetic. No matter how easy the game is or isn't there are profession combinations that aren't available to the player base unless they purchase from the shop.

Understand now?

No, I don't understand.

How does it affect game play? Where has anyone proven that it isn't merely cosmetic? If I can get the same rewards (loot, XP, title points, or anything else offered by the game) at the same speed as someone with merc heroes, how does the player with merc heroes have an advantage over me?

The fact that someone with merc heroes has more combinations available does not prove that he has better combinations available. Nobody has yet shown a team using merc heroes that is demonstrably better at playing the game than any of the 3+ billion combinations of heroes that are available to me without merc heroes.

Your argument rests entirely on your unproven assertion that game play is affected. But this isn't true merely because some people think it might be true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

its deffinatly a advantage for characters going through the game for the first time, so you can have master of whispers alike character, before you get to him

Or you can get a run to the Docks and LA, get Olias, and have the same thing after a bit of leveling. Or you can go to EotN and have a level 20 necro hero that can do the same thing. Long before you get to MoW.

But, in any case, are we really concerned with players getting some advantage in doing low level content? In being able to kill level 7 bladed termites faster? Is that the kind of "advantage" that we're complaining about?

You can argue that it gives new characters on accounts that only have NF an advantage, because they can't get Olias or Livia. But, that means that a player who spends money on Prophecies or EotN also has a cash shop advantage. Oh, horrors!

tcratty · Mar 04, 2011, 09:53 PM // 21:53

lol i am glad i beat everything before this crazy update makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside and atleast it was a challenge its stupid easy now even more so then it was

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcratty

lol i am glad i beat everything before this crazy update makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside and atleast it was a challenge its stupid easy now even more so then it was

I already completed everything in Prophecies and Factions including vanqs, and had half of Nightfall done.

I stopped because it was too boring, and henchmen frustrated me too much. All I want to do is finish grinding for my HoM, I just want to finish of NF + EOTN, and the 7 heroes make it faster.

After you've been playing for over 5 years and completed everything but the title grind, you stop caring about difficulty because you've already done everything.

Most people simply want to speed clear everything these days and title grind, and the 7 heroes makes it incredibly faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Felldspar

It's about offering something through the cash shop that players CAN'T GET from playing the game.

You mean like costumes, makeovers, extra character slots and storage panels?

SpyderArachnid · Mar 04, 2011, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Someone who bought the different special edition versions of this game gets access to:

-Max weapons any time
-A Summoning Stone that adjusts to your level and has endless uses
-Rare minis that they can sell for gold

Let's not forget those that bought EotN and Nightfall have access to heroes as well. Or those that bought any expansion/campaign have access to different skills too and PvE skills. And the skill unlock packs for PvP as well that people can purchase. Let's not forget the bonus mission pack too that gives you max gold moddable weapons.

Now how are Mercenary Heroes any different from all of the above? People paid extra cash to get all of those items too that give them a wider range of skills, heroes, weapons, extras, etc. Does that mean anyone that buys a campaign/expansion has an advantage as well? Should we all only be able to have Prophecies since every campaign gives you an "advantage"?

DiogoSilva · Mar 04, 2011, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Felldspar

God, what idiocy.

The "whining" -- the complaint -- isn't that the game is too hard. It isn't about 8 necroes or rits or any other specific build. It's about offering something through the cash shop that players CAN'T GET from playing the game. It's about inequity based on a purchase. It's about lack of integrity from a game studio, it's about selling something that is not cosmetic even though that studio has promised their player base that the cash shop items will only have cosmetic value -- after saying that cash shop items would not effect game play.

This particular cash shop item affects game play. It isn't merely cosmetic. No matter how easy the game is or isn't there are profession combinations that aren't available to the player base unless they purchase from the shop.

Understand now?

The real disavantage of GW is in the lack of balance to certain classes (ranger, ele, monk smiter, paragon), not on monotonous party compositions that no one cares about.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 10:43 PM // 22:43

I finished filling up my mercenary slots, I decided to add my PVP elly into the last slot because after the Necros, the Ellys are the ones I always find myself having to re rune constantly, so an extra elly hero will mean I can hopefully do away with having to change runes on them all the time, and also I can try out some crazy 5 elly builds.

Its merely a visual and convenience thing to me, having my leet armored PVE characters available as heroes, and a couple of extra necros and ellys so I dont have to keep on changing builds.

Jeydra · Mar 04, 2011, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Try doing DoA HM with that build.

PS: You're running Dissonance, Boon of Creation AND Spirit Light ...

Enchanted Krystal · Mar 04, 2011, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Its merely a visual and convenience thing to me, having my leet armored PVE characters available as heroes, and a couple of extra necros and ellys so I dont have to keep on changing builds.

Same, I love the fact i can take my own chars out with me, they look so cool. My poor old monk hasn't been played in ages, so now she comes everywhere with me as my healer!

It's not advantageous, just vain. IMO.

bhavv · Mar 05, 2011, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Try doing DoA HM with that build.

Its a vanq build. I can easily change it to something else for DOA / UW / Slavers Exile.

But builds that specifically work in those few areas tend not to be usable in the rest of the game.

Do you see people playing the DWG DOA speed clear build outside of DOA? Of course not because its a gimmick that works in one area only.

No one build is going to work throughout the whole game. The build in the OP is fine for vanquishing 8 man areas.

Quote:

PS: You're running Dissonance, Boon of Creation AND Spirit Light

Yes I know that, I only have one primary healer who can use a little backup. 12+1+3 Communing, 11+1 Spawning, 6+1 Restoration.

Xenomortis · Mar 05, 2011, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Its a vanq build. I can easily change it to something else for DOA / UW / Slavers Exile.

Perhaps you should state that in the OP rather than imply they're for everything.
You know, that way you don't look like your moving the goalposts to avoid being called out.

bhavv · Mar 05, 2011, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Perhaps you should state that in the OP rather than imply they're for everything.

I wouldnt assume that a single team build is for everything. Thats never been the case when people share their builds.

I changed the OP a bit, though complaining about my build is not exactly providing me with a better alternative that cant be ran with mercenary slots

I've only had 7 heroes for a day now, and this is the first thing I came up and it made vanqing incredibly easy. There are lots of other builds you can run too with 7 heroes that will be just as good, but I dont believe that mercenary slots will give anyone an in game advantage.

Jeydra · Mar 05, 2011, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Vanquishing has always been incredibly easy even in the H/H era. I vanquished just about every area with a one-build-fits-all teambuild, only slotting in Frozen Soil where it mattered, so showing a build that makes vanquishing incredibly easy is essentially showing nothing.

I just cleared the cave in Ravenheart Gloom, HM, with 7 heroes (although I failed to clear the area, not being familiar with popups) ... and I'm sure the same build will clear all vanquishes. It might not clear other tough areas, but vanquishes like I said aren't difficult at all.

That said, probably the only time when having a mercenary might matter is with Mesmers (can run PI + Panic + ESurge), who already aren't very strong in PvE in the first place, so it won't be much of an advantage.

timbo_3101 · Mar 05, 2011, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Great job Jeydra re Gloom - always impressed with your H/H results.
Still haven't been able to replicate Forgewight HM in <30min haha

Am in agreement that vanquishing, FoW, Duncan, ToPK ... these were all straightforward without consumables in HM with heroes and henchies. Perhaps the major impact will be whether it is possible to do UW (4h, SoG) or DoA, and whether we will see the demise of sc teams.

Am presently still experimenting with a combination of spiritway-discord/panic/UA heroes ...